ecbxs7h - 2018-12 - you can have a wine closet interest of a cellar.


e81fqk8 - 2018-10 - i... like with gs and ...that looks like temple furniture??
there is only one market for that and it’s devout closet-batin’ mormons. no other prob site on earth or koloa would use gs as their sexy underwear.


cg7npmq - 2014-03 - &gt;read the manual. it says this
to paraphrase the wise jurist, judge howard riddle, senior district judge (chief magistrate)
&gt;to this end i have read the manual.  i invite /u/anotherclosetathiest to take me to the relevant passages.  [...]  it would be relatively easy to state explicitly that the manual has made this specific this specific representation, and when and how the representation was made.  ***this has not been done.***


cyowao6 - 2016-01 - i had to take my test today too! i'm was making it up (sick the day the rest of class took it). i didn't get a belief survey part... i don't know if my teacher forgot to give it to me or what. i have always fantasized about writing "don't believe" instead of filling in a bubble. i'm closeted though so i have to pretend for the time being.


cpsk4bq - 2015-03 - he's probably in the closet, like those outspoken preachers that always end up caught in bathroom stalls at truck stops.  
  
as for his writing, it's not necessarily bad, but after reading ender's game, all of his characters that are supposed to be adults in his other books come across as children. not to mention that his characters seem super temperamental, almost bipolar. literally, one phrase can set them off into a piss-fit. and then three phrases later, un-piss-fitted.


ckc20l6 - 2014-09 - sounds like you handled things as well as you could! 

when my tbm grandmother died recently, at the service they opened up the pulpit to anyone who cared to say something. everyone in my family knows i left the church a while ago, but still treat me like i'm still active. i was very close to grandma, so i felt compelled to get up and say a few words. like, actually *needed* to speak. in fact i got a couple people crying, myself included. 

i don't know what i said, i just spoke. it's the closet thing to a religious experience i've ever felt in my life. a couple family members told me they *really* felt the spirit when i spoke
anyway, i admire you're ability to stay focused and composed. anecdotes like these steel my resolve. thanks! 


cww4ne2 - 2015-11 - my favorite cousin moved across the country and hasn't seen any family in about 20 years.  i'm pretty sure it's because he is gay too.  breaks my heart. and then i caught my sis telling her daughter, "we don't know anyone like that, sweetie." she probably doesn't realize there are closeted people all around her in utah county.  my mother has no idea about my cousin, either. took me years to figure it out because i had no gaydar and as it turns out tons of gay friends. 

i wish i could find a way to get my cousin to come back - or at least see me, but he wants nothing to do with any of us.  and since i only have one other exmo cousin on that side, i don't blame him.  

make sure your cousins stay connected.  it's so sad to lose someone over that.


e48kvoh - 2018-08 - while i was closeted i made the rule that we didn't attend anything with the word "conference" in it. these meetings are not designed or intended for young kids. it was hilarious how many tbms agreed with this logic. 


cx2kj6d - 2015-11 - zing! 

unfortunately we are seeing the fallout from this disgusting behavior. on the bright side, at least many of these individuals feel comfortable enough coming out of the closet later on in life! 


d5e2v2v - 2016-07 - &gt; the problem with the coexist goal is that a large chunk of the followers of the crescent have decided that they need to exterminate the rest of the symbols
and why is this? right wings (and extremists in general) gain power through fear and intimidation. but right wings also promise stability, order, continuity, and protection. if muslims feel more safe and secure in fundamentalist communities than in secular society, then the right wing will control the islamic narrative indefinitely
the vast majority of muslims i've met in the us are similar to your moroccan— they fast for ramadan and pray on fridays, but they make plenty of accommodations for secular society. but rhetoric that claims that "muslims are the enemy" or "islam is the enemy" will only drive moderate and liberal muslims into the closet, or force them into the arms of the fundamentalists who *want* them to hear the message that the west and islam are fundamentally incompatible. 

let's be clear: the real enemy are radical islamic extremists, who terrorize both muslims they dislike and non-muslims.


cu7du74 - 2015-08 - i wish i had a good, concrete answer.  i think teaching critical thinking skills is the most crucial and most effective way to guard against it, but part of the difficulty with that is that everyone already believes they're a critical thinker. we all have a blind spot.  that's probably one of the key tricks of the "hypnosis wizard" trade, and something most good conmen probably do: make you believe that you **are** being very smart or thinking critically, while sneakily leaving a backdoor open for the hypnotizer.  i guess the trick is to recognize that you're not thinking critically unless you're questioning everything you believe just as much as you question the things you don't believe
one tool the hypnotizers (tscc as well as political pundits and essential oil salesmen) use to great effect is an enemy to fight against.  the enemy can, and probably needs to be, pretty nebulous (communism, islam, liberalism, democrats, feminism, intellectualism, homosexuals, big pharma), but the enemy also has to have nearly unlimited potential to destroy everything that's good and wholesome about life as we know it (terrorism, welfare state, redefinition of marriage, destruction of the family).  funny enough, the methods of the enemy are often not that different from the methods of the heroes
i think the strongest defense is critical thinking skills: breaking down confirmation bias, and judging our own heroes with the same criteria we use to judge the enemy.  it's easy enough for me to talk about doing that since i've made that leap, at least in regards to tscc (after decades of not making it), but helping others to do it is trickier.  parents can help to guard their kids, but what can we do to protect our parents?  what can i do to open the eyes of my well-meaning but dangerously misled neighbors and friends and families
coming out with guns (metaphorical guns that shoot facts) blazing doesn't seem to help, it just seems to backfire.  i think the best success will happen by planting subtle questions, and by finding ways to demonstrate that the big bad enemies aren't what we've been taught. i came really close to posting a comment on facebook recently which i think would have planted some serious seeds, without necessarily outing me from the exmo closet.  i ended up chickening out because i was afraid of the ramifications that could affect my nom wife and our kids if i didn't pull it off just right (and let's face it, with my track record i would have screwed something up and turned my family into the pariahs of the neighborhood)
one neighbor of mine posted a link to an article on fb about the mass resignation a few weeks back, and had a couple of mini-rants: he was upset with people referring to the church as the mormon church, and to the members as mormons, and he was also bothered by a quote from a former bishop in the article saying that while mormons are very intelligent, they aren't critical thinkers.  my neighbor and one other guy from the ward both said that mormons are critical thinkers and that anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant
i wrote up two or three different responses which i eventually discarded, but i went through the fact that non-members should be forgiven for not getting the name of the church right, when the church's marketing department has done a good job of confusing the issue (meet the mormons, i'm a mormon, mormon.org, mormon newsroom, mormonsandgays.org, etc.).  on the critical thinking subject, i pointed out how critical thinking implies questioning your own beliefs using all information available (which should also be questioned), to the point that you're willing to completely abandon your ideas and beliefs if they fall short...  according to critical thinking, it's worth chipping away at beliefs that may not be true in order to find what is true.  the mormon church teaches that this isn't the way to learn spiritual truths.  instead, the church teaches (in no uncertain terms) to only do things that build up your testimony, and to avoid any information that may be critical
i wanted to post one of those responses, but i just couldn't bring myself to do it.  what can i say, i avoid confrontation.  but i'd like to believe that some of what i would have said would have sunk in.  some tbms following the thread would have had to at least try to defend themselves, which would lead to understanding the truth better.  maybe it wouldn't have broken any shelves, but i think it would have widened some preexisting cracks
also, not really directly related to your question, but something else i thought of when i read your post and the linked article: 

back when i was still a dyed in the wool tbm, i was concerned with the influence that certain political pundits had over my parents, neighbors, and friends.  glenn beck, sean hannity and all the others just do such a great job at getting their listeners super riled up.  they are really good at setting up the enemy.  the scott adams blog post you linked to reminded me of glenn beck when he said that trump and others like him use vagueness as part of their repertoire.  you can listen to an hour of glenn beck's show and leave with the feeling that you've been "taught" so much, and understand things so much better, but if you pay close attention to what beck says and how he says it, there's probably less than 120 seconds of actual information in that hour.  the rest is build up and grandstanding. it's very effective
sorry for the verbal diarrhea.


ckj731f - 2014-09 - i feel like i followed a similar path. i started listening to glenn beck... not because i liked him, but because he seemed like a sensationalistic, hypocritical liar, and the more i listened, the more i felt that way. my blood pressure went up when i'd listen to him, or when i'd hear family members or neighbors quote him and treat him like a god. i never was a hard-core conservative, but this made me *really* not want to be one. i started second guessing everything i heard about politics. i also knew that the liberal pundits were probably just as bad as beck and limbaugh and hannity, but since i don't have any liberal friends or family, the liberals didn't bother me as much. 

i read about confirmation bias one day and immediately realized how prevalent it is in politics, and likely in religion as well. i knew that some day i would have to be willing to question the religion i had always believed in. i figured mormonism would stand up to the questions in the end, so i held off on facing that. 

until one day, after a long-time friend announced on fb that he had left the church. i realized i had to question it now, too. as soon as i realized that, all the things that had been quietly sitting in my shelf jumped into my mind, and i knew that the most likely explanation for mormonism was that joseph smith invented it all. i still considered myself to mostly believe for a bit, but that didn't last long. a little bit of research and a couple of podcasts led to a lot or research, and the inescapable conclusion. 

in still active and closeted, but i hope for the day when my family and i can leave the church behind.


d5bay20 - 2016-07 - sounds like a different kind of closet case... 


cleos1b - 2014-10 - if it gets really bad, pm me and i'd be happy to talk to her even anonymously just to give her someone to talk to. my fiancee and i are very closeted/exmo but not exactly liberal. i'm a libertarian though so we would find some common ground at least in social issues. whatever i can do to help, just let me know. 


c98clfo - 2013-04 - * r-rated movie binge.  when i checked out at age 25, i had never seen an r-rated movie, except for a handful back when the varsity theater at byu showed edited versions
i immediately watched the godfather movies, and virtually all of scorcese, tarantino, kubrick, coen brothers, etc.  there was so much good film i had been missing out on.  it was awesome
* first cigar.  i've still never tried cigarettes and don't ever intend to, but an occasional cigar can be a treat
* turned down calling.  i was a closet unbeliever for many years, but determined to participate on my own terms.  telling the bishop "no" for the first time in my life was a tiny thrill
* replacing garments with normal underwear

* meeting irl with fellow ex-mos

* coming out of the unbeliever closet

milestones i have yet to achieve after 11 years of unbelief
* branching out sexually.  unless you count porn/masturbation (which i don't) i've still only ever had sex with my wife.  i've never been to a strip club or anything like that.  i'd be open to it if my wife were into it, but neither of us have ever really pursued it.  no interest in swinging or anything like that
* teaching my kids the truth about the church.  my wife and kids are still active.  i intend to sit down with them and explain my disbelief and hopefully steer them away from mormonism, but i have yet to do so.  it's dicey
* tattoos, piercings. no interest



d9pxono - 2016-11 - can i flip this over please... if you're experiencing feelings, voices, or general communication from an unseen source that you truly believe is real and comes from outer space...you may have a mental illness.


dlttx53 - 2017-08 - great idea,  that will do.  i may have to start doing the same since i'm stuck in the closet and attending for the time being.  


criapmi - 2015-05 - &gt; i've never been fully tbm, though i wanted to believe up until about age 40

pay attention ^ closet exmos who sacrifice your children to the church's brainwashing just so that you can make peace with your spouse. subjecting your children to this cult is negligent child-abuse which can scar and cripple then emotionally and psychologically for *life*. 



dmftvjb - 2017-09 - my keurig is in my bedroom closet now (long story) and don't think the smell travels very far.  a whole pot may he a different story.


dlq56e5 - 2017-08 - i will state that i do not question the integrity of members and their right to pack their own parachute when it comes to outing themselves
lay members are different than paid clergy. 

this man certainly was like you and me, quietly living according to his beliefs and serving as he went along. 

now he gets paid and he does not believe. he is on the letterhead or at least on the org chart in the ensign that represents those the church pays for their witness or testimony. that makes it different in my opinion. 


ek8ctwn - 2019-04 - &gt;some of us are in mixed faith relationships, and some, like myself, are closet exmos entirely because of spouses or employment issues. 

i've been fortunate enough to not have to deal with these dynamics but what i struggle to understand is clinging to something that was just miserable. why not let it go?


c8ypkpf - 2013-03 - poor guy i totally went through that. it got better in my teens but then i only hung around the other closeted guys at church. 

did your friend ever get free? 


doxg8ey - 2017-10 - just think! you could have been the guy to replace boyd k. as the closeted q12.  



ccdmm16 - 2013-09 - i think deciding on when to come out is up to an individual, but you have to be careful.  if you are a minor or dependent on your parents financially, it can be very dangerous.  if you think they are the type who are just ignorant because they don't know any lgbt people and will probably rethink their position if they know about you, then tell them.  if they are just going to make your life miserable, then wait until you are an adult and financially dependent.  it sucks, but there are millions of us who have been through that.  

that being said, you should definitely not do what i did and just stay in your closet because it becomes easier than the thought of what will happen when everyone finds out.  you definitely will regret it if you waste a lot of the best years of your life hiding and lying because you don't want to upset a bunch of closed-minded people.


d5j2zks - 2016-07 - &gt;bluntly: i feel like i was deprived of sexual and romantic experiences that non-members take for granted
it sounds like you love and care about your wife a lot, but this one thing you said sounds entitled. maybe non-member take their experiences for granted, but you're taking your experiences for granted too. your wife has supported you through a porn "addiction," a faith crisis and your professional ambitions, and yet you believe you're "deprived." it's doubtful that the void you're feeling would be satisfied by sexual and romantic experiences, though they might bring temporary relief. 

i think a lot of mormon men use sex to medicate and the upheaval that comes with a faith crisis can exacerbate that impulse. i'm not saying that's the case for you, but my husband's porn habit got much worse when both of our shelves crashed. 

is your marriage a sham? probably not to your wife. between secret crushes, a porn habit, and doubts about the church, you're trapped in so many closets that it probably feels that way. pursuing an affair would be a very destructive way of breaking out of all those boxes you've got yourself locked in.


dqvkhhv - 2017-12 - i was so hardcore tbm i ostracized a member of my family for years when they came out of the closet because i had to avoid "even the appearance of evil" and didn't want their "gayness" to rub off on my children. then i stumbled into the lds gospel topics essays and realized what a huge douche i was.


cs7imdz - 2015-06 - me too! that cross stitch project of a temple - never finished.  the bag for temple clothes that was a gift from my yw leader - still buried in the closet, unused 35 years later. 

and i have to wonder - what made us different? why didn't we fall for the cinderella fairytale of a castle wedding and rm prince? i think most of my friends and family did, why not me?


ebl0fhe - 2018-12 - if by sin you mean be true to myself, then it's 75% yellow and 25% blue.  i wasn't going to let a false church tell me to stay in the closet my entire life, and once i found out it was false, i dropped all interest in listening to their fake morality.


d5p9lm7 - 2016-07 - i've come to the conclusion that a mix between childhood nostalgia, virtual reality novelty, and smart phone gaming convenience. 



i'm perfectly satisfied watching my roommates/ friends actually come outside with me for a walk. or they tell to me to slow the car down so they can catch something

 9 times out of 10 i speed up.


ew097sr - 2019-08 - in-laws have a guest room, overtop the bed is a *massive* charcoal drawing of my boy j, crown of thorns dribbling blood down into his eyes, with an expression like he just hounddogged a fifth of vodka -- staring right at you. imagine having sex with those eyes on you
personally, i can't. i shoved that goddamn picture in the closet. come to think of it, maybe that's why i've been cursed with a hard heart...


c4y2wmh - 2012-06 - so i am a never-mo dating a mormon.  i have been hanging out here to find out more about the mormon church.  the people in the ward are nice, but i have always had my doubts about the church itself
i agreed to meet with the missionaries.  most of them are nice 19 year old boys.  they're young and not exactly wise.  they aren't exactly opening up my eyes to great spiritual truths but they're nice enough.  

one of them was a bit, let's say dogmatic.  i got a very cookie cutter email from him regarding one of my questions.  i got a bit frustrated with such a non-responsive, thoughtless answer, so i threw some basic philosophy 101 class type stuff at him like  "does god define good and evil or is he just enforcing universal rules that control him?"  i wanted this kid to stop regurgitating stuff, actually think, and have a conversation with me
it backfired.  he proceeded to refuse to even address my questions and stated that i was too infected with the philosophies of man.  

i think it's basically a way for the church to tell it's members to ignore all the great ideas that come from outside the church.  ignore the ancient greeks, ignore st. augustine, ignore scientists.  they are all arrogant and infected with the philosophies of man.  they don't matter.  the church has all the truth in the world.  you need nothing else.  don't think, don't question, just parrot what we tell you.    

it's a way to shut down any dialogue and stop people from questioning
edit-  i note you stay philosophy and religion are antagonistic.  this is not true.  some religious people are definitely antagonistic to philosophy.  some denominations encourage this, some discourage this.  the more fundamentalist a denomination the more likely it will be antagonistic to outside ideas in my experience.  



clhgknl - 2014-10 - you do realise that your parents are absolutely going to renege on that offer to go somewhere else after two years, don't you? you don't want to believe they will, but they *will*
&gt;i vehemently don't want to go to byu for obvious reasons, but is the free college worth it
it won't be free. do you know why? it's becsus you will fail at byu. deep depression and and anxiety over having to live in he closet and hiding your true self. it will eventually destroy your ability to do schoolwork. we have had dozens of closet unbelievers in this sub who fell for the "free" college gimmick. there parents often reneged on the payment part. they won't pay for you to switch out. your dating and social life will be hell. every girl that seems like she could work out will lead to massive heartbreak. rational pranoia over snitches will set in. snitching is a popular pastime at byu. the stress will break you. we've hear it all before, so many times
if your parents keep leaning on byu, switch your strategy to "i want to go somewhere closer to home". it might not be your top pick, by it will be a damn sight better than suffering and failing out of byu. 



cf2je9p - 2014-01 - **warning: spoilers ahead*
isn't the more obvious gay relationship between anna and elsa? here me out. i'm not saying it's a literal, incestuous relationship. i'm saying it's metaphorical, it's a "pseudo"-lesbian film. 

first off, there's elsa herself, who has a curse that she was "born with" (a strange detail the film thinks is important) and lives her whole life "in the closet." similar to the plight of many gay people, the townsfolk are frightened of elsa because of what they don't understand. then there's her big "coming out" anthem that transforms her into the ice queen. she embraces her powers, but also lets her hair down and gives herself a sexy new dress, which we may interpret as a sort of coming-of-age, sexual liberation. 

granted, elsa's problems are similar to many disney protagonists, who turn their weaknesses into strengths. that doesn't necessarily mean she is a metaphor for homosexuality. 

but here's my biggest piece of evidence that the film has homosexual themes: all of the major romantic tropes we expect from a disney prince and princess are appropriated by the two girls. there's a lot of gender bending in this film. whenever our studly male characters attempt to take on the role of traditional male hero they are shot down by one of the girls. 

the prince stays behind and watches over the kingdom while anna ventures off to find the princess, er, elsa, in a sort of reverse-odyssey situation where penelope goes off adventuring and odysseus manages the house. 

during the first half of the film audiences who know their disney stories well were totally expecting elsa to end up with kristoff. she makes ice, he sells ice, perfect match for a perfect, double-wedding ending! but nope, anna cock-blocks him to ensure that won't happen. this is one prince that won't be rescuing any maidens from icy towers, because anna insists on going into the fortress herself. not only does elsa not end up with a man at the end of the story, she doesn't seem to express any romantic interests whatsoever. 

finally, the big "true love breaks the spell" moment, which in disney history has *always* been designated between the main character and their romantic interest. this is the most vital piece of evidence. throughout the film anna and elsa are not only expressing sisterly love, they're donning the role of "prince charming" for each other. and that's my theory. 


d8bec1z - 2016-10 - exmo-sub frequenters know the "empereror is naked". 

and there are closet exmos who know it. 

and tbms/leaders/authorities(?) etc. who suspect it, even in simply a cog-dis way
and the conversation is increasingly allowing the dissidence of voicing that knowledge, fueled especially by leaks of any nature
ie the leak functions both as a leak, and as knowledge that people are so dissatisfied that they release these leaks
i will karma-support anyone who brings to pass further light and knowledge ;)


cqh8d4u - 2015-04 - ya just like that fucking knife set you purchased from the pimple faced kid (door to door fundraising) a month back only to toss it in the closet and donate it to goodwill three years later haha!  pllleeeaasse…


cqgujsw - 2015-04 - the first couple episodes of "my book of mormon" podcast had me barreling over laughing at how often a ghost would just pop out of a closet or pantry for old joe smith.


dfh9803 - 2017-03 - i don't think it would have been so bad if there was anyone else close to my age but the ones that were all had birthdays before january 1st. the next closet in age was 8 months younger and obviously in the younger grade. i was 12 and had to participate in the primary program. 


ekhyuru - 2019-04 - looking back, my dad was a closeted exmormon and my mom was kind of a nomish choose-what-you-emphasize mormon. they both were very friendly to nonmembers in the neighborhood and didn’t think those folks were going to hell. i absorbed that practical perspective - truly lucky in that regard, since i grew up in utah.


evdeeqd - 2019-07 - i find myself incredibly anxious around my tbm family, but mostly because i'm in the non believing closet. all the mormon talk makes me jittery. 

i'm sure when i finally tell them, they will play the "i could tell. you aren't happy any more. i could see you had lost your light" bullshit.


cfox7md - 2014-02 - &gt;they realized the fraud, but don't want to give up the parts they like
correct me if i am wrong but it appears that you said it in the comment that started this whole exchange.  i would reword this as, "they realized the fraud, but don't want to rock the boat so they pretend to believe."  

i was primarily objecting to the fact that you used the word 'like'.  i think that the vast majority of these closeted unbelievers hate it.  the poll is currently showing that only 13% like going to church with 65 respondents.  

i agree, it is obnoxious for closeted unbelievers to continue to support the church because it adds to the power of the church and allows them to maintain social pressures on others.  asche's conformity experiments prove this.  i still attend church, but i am an outspoken unbeliever and i can tell that sometimes they just don't know what to do with me.  but i'm not going to sit there and let them pretend that some of this shit makes sense and have half of the audience thinking that they are the only one...


dkruuzs - 2017-07 - i'm the oldest and my brother (next youngest sibling) is leaving in october. he's closeted gay to everyone but the immediate family..
i'm so scared.


dr7gtq1 - 2017-12 - &gt; i actually think news like this coming from outside the corridor makes it more likely national news will pick it up

agree completely. my reaction were i not lds would be, "wow. so it isn't just some crazy utah thing". i wouldn't so easily dismiss it.


epxda7g - 2019-06 - not that he’s ever said so aloud but bednar strikes me as the very angry closeted gay mormon type who uses fire and brimstone to try to quell the feelings of inadequacy and unworthiness for needing to use a mental image of what must be his best friend russel’s massive prophet penis to finally orgasm after he’s been trying just to stay hard inside his wife for their yearly anniversary sex
and the way he was holding that little boy during that super cringe fireside he did tells me he could quite honestly be a pedophile as well
i went to byui, i really don’t like adolf bednar.


enoqtlw - 2019-05 - hugs internet friend from a fellow closet exmo.


ch51ieg - 2014-04 - i live in ca and the prop 8 campaign started a few months after i left.  seeing those kids on street corners i knew my kids would never be part of that. i can't possibly think that way and neither do they. they are both best friends with closeted gays (yes even in ca it takes a while to recognize, accept, and publicly proclaim).  if there is a god doing everything for a reason they should both have gay sons because that is their dream.


cyky6a5 - 2016-01 - i love it. this is what closet exmos should wear. 


cskp0qd - 2015-06 - they don't really want people to stop having sex as much as they want people to be ashamed. they want gays in the closet because they should be ashamed of their feelings. they want unwed mothers shipped off to avoid embarrassing the family. they want sex to happen in darkness and to not speak of it. they want shame, they crave shame, they want people to feel bad
in case you were wondering where people like bednar come from — they come from there.


dk2gaoj - 2017-07 - from what we have heard there is no one too unimportant or small to have a file.  that is one reason reddit anonymity is important for anyone who is still closeted or active for family reasons
but not many people, even dehlin or runnels, have a direct run-in with scmc.  the claim is that they are not a disciplinary body.  they generally let other people do the dirty work.  the scmc passes information to the sp.  the sp and/or the bishop have to do the dirty work.  they probably don't say the information came from scmc.  in fact, they may not even know about the scmc at all.    the information probably gets to the sp via a ga or letter from someone in the cob.


cotxyas - 2015-02 - i'm so sorry that you are going through this hardship. i hope that you are able to stand on your own two feet soon, so that living authentically won't feel like such a burden and a trap. you are not alone, there are closeted non-believers in strict evangelical, islamic, and other faiths, and closeted gay brothers and sisters, who are in a similar situation. it does get better.  if you plan on staying in the closet re your beliefs for long, consider seeing mental healthcare professional, if you have insurance. talking to a non-lds counselor can help mitigate the pain of having to "live a lie," as you say, and can help when the time comes, to find the right words and time to share your disbelief with your family.


exe5snw - 2019-08 - hi there!  i'm exmo, bi, and in the closet to my mormon family and nearly all my mormon friends, including my best friend.  my bf and i were talking a couple weeks ago about shows to watch on netflix, and i mentioned queer eye, which led to this whole huge discussion about how she feels about lgbtq+ folks (keep in mind, she has no idea that i'm bi).  it was a really long conversation, and really hard for me.  mostly it was her just trying to figure out how she feels-- like, she doesn't feel like she should be judgmental, and she knows the church's record on civil rights is spotty, but seeing a grown woman mention her wife in public makes my bf feel icky... all that jazz.  i just tried to be there for her-- i remember the conditioning, and how hard it is to even think that the church might have something wrong.  in any case, she's my bestie and i love her.  she's doing the best she knows how.  someday i might work up the guts to tell her i'm bi...


e6ir0dz - 2018-09 - she just found out today that one of our oldest sons resigned from the church so she’s literally sitting in our closet on the floor crying. this makes me so sad for her but i feel no sadness about our kids’ religious choices at all and i know this will only add pressure to that social pressure. 


cvnka5r - 2015-10 - the stanfill talk had me shaking with rage.  i have tried my entire life to gain a testimony.  tried so hard.  it has never come, no matter what i do.  i've been relying on other people's testimonies my entire life.  i can't even remember what exactly it was that upset me so much, i'll have to reread it soon.  i'm a fully active in-the-closet non-believer with a calling and a tbm family and this talk may be giving me the courage to talk about my disbelief out loud somewhere that is non-anonymous.  


c1xef4l - 2011-06 - my brother will be turning in his stuff within the next couple weeks.  although the family can afford it he is giving up a full college scholarship to do it and the scholarship can't be held if he doesn't go for at least 1 semester. i've also thought about saying something but i'm still closeted to my family.  plus i did the same thing when i was my brothers age and thought i was sacrificing for the lord. the lord didn't give me all my scholarship money back however. 

i tried talking to my brother about going to at least one semester first because he wouldn't be able to leave at the earliest until october which means it could be as late as december when the semester would be over anyway.  it didn't work for me but perhaps you could talk to your brother about doing something else first like college, or a job to raise money for the mission. 

although i look at my mission differently now i can't deny that i learned a lot of great things and developed some great skills that have helped me to be successful today.  it's for that reason that i won't try to convince him no to go altogether because there can be some really great things come from a mission.  i do plan to write him a lengthy letter before he goes explaining how not to be a jerk as a missionary. 


d8l5b3x - 2016-10 - you make really good points. i've been surprised before by closeted exmos who i wouldn't have expected. 

edited grammar


czblrq8 - 2016-01 - welcome to the club.  i got the cold shoulder from tbm family and friends when i left the church, which was a year after i came out gay.  of the two "coming outs", leaving the church was by far the more difficult.  people were sympathetic when i came out gay, but when i left the church, they couldn't fathom it.


caxirpe - 2013-07 - [we can't do samesies anymore. no people come out.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgfq9o2-9bm)


dk6ugvk - 2017-07 - well, after years and years, i would advise you to think and feel and do what you want to.  if you don't want to leave yet, then don't.  my last straw was being gay and in the closet still after 49 years, and realizing that none of the promises i'd been told had come true yet, and i was horribly depressed all the time.  so, mine was a bit different than many, because i had to come out of the gay closet and realized i was in the religion closet, too (or the non-religion closet).  so, i am stereotypical, i wanted to sin!  (have gay sex, that is).


d5fx9ad - 2016-07 - can you drop a lure and leave? i'd love to do this today to my old ysa group, but don't want them to see me. i would drop it just outside the stake center where they all are. lol so they'd have to come outside to get it!!!! lol


d4tep5o - 2016-06 - love this. but wouldn't a closeted trans girl be in young men's? 


dl4ehjg - 2017-08 - definitely. this is part of a sequence that i thought deserved its own post because the snufferites are the latest to join the "smith was never a polygamist" camp. [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/6r4aqa/let_all_be_aware_any_tbm_counterargument/dl27p82/) the issue seems to be coming up more and more, with outright denial as a first argument, even when considering the admissions in the official essay, *plural marriage in kirtland and nauvoo*
* [joseph fielding smith vs. richard evans](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/35zcny/richard_c_evans_18611921_in_the_1900s_as_a_member/)


cp6ryy7 - 2015-03 - thank you for sharing
it sounds like you and your wife have a relationship that transcends the church (and most couples in healthy relationships do).  don't let the things that aren't important and are fake (i.e., the church's false truth-claims) let you ruin the things that are important and are real (like your relationship with your wife and children).  as i went through this i decided to let my wife know that i would make her and our children the priority and that i wanted to be unified in how we worshiped and raised our children (i have a ton of kids of all ages) without being untrue to myself.  that's a fine line to walk, but it has worked remarkably well for us.  just this week my wife told me in passing that she would be okay with me resigning.  i'm not ready to do that yet (still pondering the merits of getting  excommunicated for preaching the truth or just staying a closet exmo until the whole family is ready to leave if/when that ever happens)
lately, i've been enjoying ["the triple path"](http://triplepath.org/download) immensely, and i wonder if you wouldn't also appreciate it.  it is a synthesis of scientific and religious ideals (but doesn't tolerate any religious falsehoods).  it's not new-age-ish or anything, just very thoughtful.  he's another fellow who went through the same kind of thing and also gives good reasons for trying to keep a marriage intact
it's clear that alcohol is a part of the exmormon process of self-discovery for many leaving the church.  i fully respect that decision (if done responsibly).  however, for myself, i just figure that i've been this long and fine, so why start now?  my bil, an uncle, and grandmother-in-law all died as alcoholics.  i consider this a distinct benefit of having walked the path i did (no desire to experiment with those things).  there is a sizable minority on exmormon who feel the same as me.


dvts2wy - 2018-03 - fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck youuuuuuuuuuuu
burn in hell, archuleta! didn’t your dad get arrested while patronizing a “massage parlor,” and you hang out in gay bars. you fucking closet case. 


dpdmjzm - 2017-11 - whoever was in charge of posting that video did not have the church's interests at heart.  maybe a closet exmo.


cuis774 - 2015-08 - i definitely think there's something weird about the leaders' fascination with sex, i really do think they have some kind of obsession with it. 

that said, i'm not sure i'd say that swk and others were actually closet homosexuals. i think it's quite likely that over the years they've heard a lot of confessions and "helped" a lot of people through the so-called repentance process, and they probably picked up some weird theories along the way, based partly on their own warped views going into it, and i'm sure the confessors were looking for something to make sense of their imagined sinfulness, so i'm sure church leaders jump on any suggestions from repentant sinners for how to link different types of sin into one giant web of sin. 

or maybe swk was gay. i really have to wonder how/why mark e peterson managed to go 45+ years without seeing his own wife naked. and he's the guy that said you should tie your hands to the bed to prevent masturbation, so maybe you're right.


c305ybt - 2011-11 - be absolutely sure that joining the church will make your life better. it is often difficult and very painful to leave, so give your life changing decision some serious time. as much time as you would give to dating someone before you married them. live the mormon life for at least a few months (preferably a year or two) and then see if the church is a good fit for you. find out about all those skeletons in the closet before joining. i think members try to get quick baptisms and commitments because it's easier to suck people in that way
as for why i left, i guess the best way to describe it is that i found the church and culture intellectually stifling. i was so caught up in the church's expectations that i couldn't live my life with any freedom or choice. i didn't do well with the oppression of thought in the church.


e3paonm - 2018-08 - mormons have a bunch of additional requirements to get into heaven. it's kind of like the "christianity dlc" pay-to-play package that the founder joseph smith added to the religion after he joined the stone masons and stole a bunch of their ceremonies (hoping no one would ever notice or figure out that's where they came from). one of the ceremonies is where you go into a small closet with an old guy and they give you a new name. 

when i did that ceremony i thought it was some cool thing, like that is your spirit name in heaven or something, but no they just have a list of 31 male names and 31 female names depending on day of the month and everyone who does the ceremony that day of the month gets the same "secret" name. 

the new name is used in a later ceremony as one of the passwords you tell god to let you into mormon heaven.  


d9a31mz - 2016-10 - thank you for coming here to try and understand better and to share with us what you've found on your journey.  i am glad that you have found a path that is making you happy! :
here's my response to your inquiry
* [brief sketch of my journey](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8812468/closet_exit/brief_sketch_of_my_journey-safe.pdf* [my beliefs](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8812468/closet_exit/summary_of_my_beliefs.pdf* [top 5 myths and truths about why committed mormons leave the church](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep3gjeyin3s) (according to this data, the vast majority leave because of historical/scientific issues* [testimony, spiritual experiences, and truth: a careful examination](https://mormonbandwagon.com/bwv549/testimony-spiritual-experiences-truth-careful-examination/) (an alternative model for understanding spiritual experiences, which imho fits the available data much better than the standard lds view
&gt; i just want to say that there is no reason why both groups can't treat each other with respect and kindness

part of the significant tension that exists between members and former members is that former members (particularly ones who want to share the information they've found) are repeatedly characterized in church material as being [literal servants of satan](https://www.lds.org/search?lang=eng&amp;query=%22you+will+follow+his+dictation+and+be+his+servant%22).  and those who share information about discrepancies in church teachings are characterized as ["faith-killers"](https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1981/10/opposition-to-the-work-of-god?lang=eng&amp;_r=1).  these are not one-off statements -- they are being taught in [*current* lesson manuals](https://www.lds.org/search?lang=eng&amp;query=%22faith-killers+are+to+be+shunned%22) and in current general conference sessions (as pointed to earlier).  here's [a complete analysis](https://mormonbandwagon.com/bwv549/three-fold-nature-lds-church-corporate-totalistic-individual-growth/) that attempts to understand why this kind of thinking occurs
i do agree with you that this is a wonderful goal.  i hope you will continue working at it from your side, and i'll keep working on it from my side.  there are lots of ways to encourage understanding, but i think a great start would be for members to ask their leaders to disavow statements that those who leave will always become servants of satan
best regards
bwv549


deky2z1 - 2017-03 - it sounds like you're making the right steps as you become aware of your own feelings and live according to those, with respect to others, so the only advice i have is to keep on following yourself, be true to yourself and live authentically to you.  that's the best way (and this is from a gay man who hid in the closet for 49 years, so i have a lot of experience with not living true to myself, lol).  set boundaries with pushy church leaders, and be aware that sometimes you have to offend them to be true to yourself.  thanks for sharing your story and welcome to the best group of exmormons anywhere!  the sub-reddit!


emooos4 - 2019-05 - yeah i’m gonna have to agree that shouldn’t have to go around smearing his name like that.  i don’t want to also excuse shitty behavior cause that’s emotionally damaging to everyone involved but being closeted at byu really messes up how one processes emotions towards relationships.  i feel like college, especially, should be a time to explore and find out who you are as a person and being at byu stifles that process and leads to people making... not the best decisions.  it’s growing pains and it sucks but he’s a kid and hopefully he’s learned from it.


e17t4z7 - 2018-06 - i recall somewhere here a while ago a missionary that converted to islam and was a closet muslim at byu.


e534ijv - 2018-08 - i have it on good authority one of the high council members in sam’s stake is a closet non-believer. sam won’t need to record it because someone else in the room will likely do it for him. 

i’m serious. 


dalzm1t - 2016-11 - i have three friends in the church that i really hope are either closet exmo, or will be able to find their way out. brilliant women. all feminists. if they're not closet exmo, i know (from personal experience) that the cognitive dissonance is probably excruciating
i hope that when i come out as exmo, they ask questions rather than shut me out.


dqgv8ex - 2017-11 - now, couple your anger with having to live during his tenure as prophet, when "miracle of forgiveness" (his book) was "scripture-like".  shame on a gay man like me, no wonder i hid in the closet for 49 years!


djtxym8 - 2017-07 - there is literally a giant molding hole in the chapel ceiling at my church, and we still have to go. there's roaches in the basement too
also this is in the middle of mordor, not a third world country
edit: going to try to sneakily take a picture of said rotting ceiling next time i go to church. 

my building also has a secret closet, that's inside of another closet. but it's really lame; just filled with scouting stuff from 20 years ago, and mice. 


dziiwq8 - 2018-05 - welcome to the club.  i've been out of the closet gay for 5 years now, gone through hell, and i still can't figure out even people i know who are very close to me and my husband (yes, you heard right, i have a husband!  he's gay, i'm gay, we're gayly married) and we are baffled at the many affirmation lds gay people who still want to be affiliated with and even believe in mormonism.  is a puzzlement!


cwklszh - 2015-11 - it gets better.  one of my best friends went through going on a mission for the whole two years, dating a girl afterwards for several years, and then becoming an alcoholic before he realized living authentically was the only way to be happy.  things have gotten exponentially better for him in ways i can never comprehend but i'm sure it was not easy
just know there are people who care about you and as a community we are always here for you
best of luck with everything.  let us know if there is any way we can help.  i have a few friends that i'm sure would be happy to talk to you about their experience coming out of both closets and i'd be glad to put you in touch.


ct4xier - 2015-07 - &gt;"do you feel like it's your responsibility to make everyone happy? do you feel like your opinions matter less?
i had a double whammy with that one.  my parents were active alcoholics when i was growing up. i coped by becoming the best little tbm in the world.  mission, byu, temple marriage, bishoprics, high council and lots and lots of temple attendance and genealogy.  but it was never enough.  i was in a bishopric when i finally got some help with a therapist and alanon.  

when i was growing up, i got the very strong message from church leaders that i was going to be key in getting my parents to stop drinking and back to church, with usual caveat of *as long as you are worthy.*  my parents did stop drinking while i was on my mission, but thanks goes to aa rather than lds.  they never did start going to church
i guess i knew intellectually that i was not responsible for anyone else happiness, but in my heart i really believed that i could change other people.  i had to go through the exercise of telling family members that i was giving up fixing them and that they would have to take responsibility for their own lives
also, coming out the gay closet helped a lot also, but that is for another day
tl;dr - i can't make anyone but myself happy, regardless of what i learned in church.


ch3vx84 - 2014-04 - born and raised in vegad and been in pretty much every ward.  wife children everything.  im a closet as well.  i always feel horrible when i hear people are about to attend the temple which started my disbelief years ago as an 18 year old preparing for a mission.  ive gained my wife kids and career through this church so i keep the act going.  unless you have another church ij mind just go through the motions.  it's just life and if you do believe in a loving heavenly father, he wont banish you to hell if you end up wrong.


d8d2rca - 2016-10 - he was a kind man, he acted like a common man and visited different utah wards almost every week. granted i do not condone all thinks mckay was/did
i am reminded of him a lot this time of year. he seemed like the last profit to not ham the repulican agenda down your throat. he mainly said, just be a patriot and vote. its an american right
never heard of him being a polygamist back then, but those that were still in the mormon church back then would have a wife, kids and a house in day bluffdale and then another wife in granger. that's why i think the rule about not going to a signed wards was made. and the 2 first names for men
you would never know if your jr high school friends were polygamists untill all the girls got married off in the summer and never showed up to high school
for me all the crap i have seen around polygamy, mormon closeted polygamists were the bestso i would tend to believe your friend. 




ewwoyky - 2019-08 - and probably closet atheist.


dp80mg5 - 2017-11 - even that isn't a requirement. a lot of us are in the closet and can't leave yet. others are tbms or nevermos that want to learn more about us.


er2ujlc - 2019-06 - i mean you could go the mormon history route, or you could add some spice to their life
a steamy romance? oh like the kiss quotient by helen hoang. steamy and a sweet story. or the real deal by lauren blakely 

or a ya romance like autoboyography by christina lauren which is takes place in provo and is about a never-mo bi boy who falls for a closeted bishop's son, and is amazing
honestly i just want to recommend books. my friends don't like my book recommendations at all anymore. i told a friend she should read all the light we cannot see, and described it about being about a young blind girl, a reluctant german soldier, and radios in france in wwii, and she was like "umm...well...is it like clean?" and i was like, "no, there were a lot of bombings, there was dust and debris everywhere."


ci8ohhv - 2014-06 - are you out of the closet? do your parents accept your apostasy enough to not threaten to sabotage your life?


celv5az - 2014-01 - the last time i went to church was a singles ward in beaverton. one of my oldest friends little sister is still active there, and is a deeply closeted lesbian. apparently having a stake president who is accepting isn't enough to give her the courage to come out. poor sweet girl that she is.


c79ibgw - 2012-12 - i guess my questions were more aimed at closeted ex-mos. if i explain this "myth" and my daughter tells my mother that jesus is at the same level as rudolph i may die. but who knows, by the time that comes around maybe i'll have finally given up and come out of my closet. :/


cswm21h - 2015-07 - i went from active mormon to closeted exmormon midway thru my first year in college, (at byu-i in 2007 ish). cut to few years later, i buy a new home as i am moving the neighbors come by to meet the new guy and "they" found me. i was assigned to a ysa ward and got home teachers (one who i actually liked, he owned a food truck). eventually i was invited by the other home teacher to one of the ysa events, a neighborhood bonfire/bbq. i was bored, had just left a relationship, and i was finding it a bit lonely being the only non-mormon of any of my family and friends. 

so i went, got introduced to all these random ward members, of course there was an attractive girl who caught my eye and did the flirt to convert on me, and i went back to church the next week. all the time thinking "yeah i can fake being mormon, i did it at byu-i. who knows maybe i'll suddenly gain a testimony, my grandfather used to be the only exmormon until he joined"... i went for awhile until the guy who invited me to the ysa event started dating said girl. i started to ask myself why i came back, if those years before i decided it was false. 

nowadays i have a testimony of exmormonism so not even a flirty mormon girl is going to reactivate me. i just need to watch out for those flirty girls of other religions...


crvlqbq - 2015-06 - from /u/throwawaymormonism 
&gt;i really just need to let loose some feelings about the mormon church right now, so try not to mind the rambling too muchon friday last week, my seminary teacher (early morning seminary, not release time) brought up how he is so angry that the boy scouts of america are thinking about allowing gays on a per-troop basisthis is the first time that i've been in a real conversation about gays in a church setting, and i am utterly surprised about the amount of blatant homophobia and misinformation there is about the gays. an example of this is how mostly everybody considered to be some form of personal choice or something that can be changed, not a biological difference as it is. a few of my fellow scouts were frightened of the idea of letting a gay person sleep in the same tent as could make themselves turn gay. then, there is my seminary teacher who redirects all the "difficult" questions to the prophets, and what would they do. today the discussion continued with more fuel from my teacher about how the prophets hate only the "sin" but not the sinner. then it moved on to how a lot of the kids are uncomfortable talking about this and just wished to leave it alone. so that's what my seminary teacher decided to do. we aren't talking about it anymore, we're done. they ignored it. according to them just don't think about and it's not there
&gt;except for a couple liberal mormons who argued for their rights (that i'm grateful for because they helped me argue some points), none of them really thought about what their perspective would be like if they were gay, or society's roles were flipped and being gay was the norm, and straight people were discriminated against. i tried to share with them that i (an eagle scout) would not want to take away anybody's opportunity to get their eagle scout award if they wanted it and worked hard for it. and the other few members who supported gay rights had more logical and convincing arguments but it really frustrates me how tscc can brainwash people into thinking that it's right to ignore facts, brush off some else's opinion, and "ignore the hard parts!
&gt;i am a little disappointed in my self that i didn't say more. i even had some really great arguments in my head i just couldn't gather up the balls to say them, mostly because i am a closeted, non-stereotypical gay man. this conversation really hurt because they don't know what they're saying and how it affects peoplebonus: my dad came home last week and expressed how angry he was about the bsa thinking about letting gays in. i've also never seen him so passionate about homosexuality like this and it hurt a little more. fuck this church
[source](http://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/181trp/a_discussion_about_gays_and_boy_scouts_during/)


cze1e2c - 2016-01 - since i don't know the person personally, it could be a believer who really doesn't see the irony with that statement or a closeted ex-mormon taking another step before revealing where he/she is.


dxwz9em - 2018-04 - this \-\- this right here, this was the catalyst for my first honest look down the rabbit hole. this was my ces letter. i was a closet unbeliever, but still too afraid of the "but what if it's all true" thing and "mom and dad would be crushed" and "but i've had spiritual confirmation!" so i was going to church and going through the motions. that's my state of mind at the top of this page. by the time i got to the bottom, everything had come crashing down. "omg it's all a f\*cking made\-up web of lies!" the book of abraham thing and the retconning of the priesthood "restoration" were the final nails in the coffin, but this idiocy of the jaredite boats was too much to even \*pretend\* to believe. now i can't believe i ever read that and thought, "huh. yeah. \*that\* happened, just like that..." 


dnbw5dc - 2017-09 - i'll refer to it as my ptsd.  i was 15 in 1978, enjoying a perfectly normal summer day watching tv when this god-damned announcement came on, and because of good old bruce r mcfuckhead, i thought the world was coming to an end right then!  fucked me up royally, in addition to being gay and in the closet!


devnvw1 - 2017-03 - i've long believed that the real test of a mormon "testimony" isn't what people get up and say on fast sunday.  it's what they actually do.  

i mean, if someone really believed there was an omnipotent deity that really wanted them to visit three certain families each month, there is nothing on heaven or earth that could keep them from doing so.  but based on my elder's quorum home teaching stats, we have a lot of closet atheists.


dam71jx - 2016-11 - the last time i visited home, i was a closet unbeliever. my cousin came to see me, and i had suspected he was in the same vote. finally, he broke the news to me that he was leaving the church. my response surprised him: "dude, that's awesome! me too! fuck, i'm wearing a hanes tee shirt under this so no one asks any questions.
we've both since resigned. it was a great experience. i just wish since publicly leaving more relatives would have come out. or at least talked to me about it. but nope.


dtaca2a - 2018-01 - the first time i answered "no" to that question was such a huge step. at the time i was a closet exmo still attending weekly. saying it out loud to someone made it finally seem real, and made me feel "i can do this, i can live the rest of my life as a non mormon". it was such a relief.


e7leuch - 2018-10 - don't let these bastards tell you your worth. i went to a church school too. i wasn't lgbt, but i was a closeted exmo, and even with that i know how toxic that environment can be, much more if you're facing hate for the lgbt community. fuck them. **you are better than them**. don't let them convince you otherwise. life will change soon. you'll graduate from there like i did or you'll leave. either way you'll be free and feel free. hang in there


ebenhdz - 2018-12 - it was freaking amazing, can't wait to buy it for the kiddos.  my tbm friend saw it and hated it.  there was no further discussion since i'm still in the closet somewhat...


ebmzd7d - 2018-12 - i got lucky. only ran the missionaries once after coming out. luckily i was living with my best friend, we left the church pretty much together, he later told me his biggest shelf item was "seeing what you went through after coming out, no true church would ever make people feel so bad about something that can't change." anywho i remember these elders coming over, i wasnt stoked but i of course was cordial with them. i said i had no interest in going back because i'm gay, they started getting into how i can technically be gay and be mormon, i told them love and marriage was too important to me. i forget what he said next i remember hearing the start of the sentence and thinking "oh shit this will not end well" so i said no thanks and starting walking off. luckily my best friend isn't as cordial when people insult the gays so i walked off to my friend interrupting the elder with "who the fuck do you think you are?" apparently that was the nicest thing he said, elders didn't stay much longer and never came back. looking back i wish i had been the one to yell at the elders these kinds of teachers are unacceptable. i hadn't heard about the change in policy on where you go if you commit suicide. if i had heard that while in the church i probably wouldn't be here. it scares me for all the young closeted lgbt+ kids stuck in the church. 


d5l76oq - 2016-07 - gotta stay in the closet until you are certain everything is finalized with byui. take a phone ir tablet to church and distract yourself for three hours if that's what it takes in the meantime.


cey1dzp - 2014-01 - #####&amp;#009
######&amp;#009
####&amp;#009*couldn't find wikipedia article titled "your name". here's the closest match:* [***t-pain***](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/t-pain) : 

--
&gt
&gt;**faheem rasheed najm** (born september 30, 1985), better known by his stage name **t-pain**, is an american singer-songwriter, rapper, record producer, and actor. his debut album, rappa ternt sanga, was released in 2005. in 2007, t-pain released his second studio album epiphany, which reached number one on the billboard 200. his third studio album, thr33 ringz, was released in 2008. t-pain has earned two grammy awards alongside artists kanye west and jamie foxx
&gt;t-pain is the founder of the record label nappy boy entertainment, established in 2005. throughout his career as a singer, t-pain is known for using &amp; popularizing the auto-tune pitch correction effect. throughout the years of 2006-10 t-pain was featured on more than 50 chart topping singles, his most successful feature to date was in flo rida's debut single "low" which has since been certified 6x platinum
--
[^(**picture**)](http://i.imgur.com/e6itmbp.jpg
[^(image source)](http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/file:t-pain_2011.jpg) ^| [^(about)](http://www.reddit.com/r/autowikibot/wiki/index) ^| *^(/u/anotherclosetatheist can reply with 'delete'. will also delete if comment's score is -1 or less.)*  ^| ^(**summon**: wikibot, what is something?) ^| [^(flag for glitch)](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/autowikibot&amp;subject=bot%20glitch&amp;message=%0acontext:http://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1w1i67/bovine_worship_is_only_silly_when_your_culture/cey1dse)


daemmyn - 2016-11 - are you *sure* you're the only exmo in your family? a lot of us are still in the closet you know. happy to hear you had a nice thanksgiving:)


eaii8ul - 2018-11 - i feel for you.  you had a great mother who did not quite know how fantastic she really was.  the church is hardly worthy of someone like your mom contributing to it.   i also had a great mother who was educated and was a great teacher.  she taught music, art, and history at a college as well as produced hundreds of gorgeous paintings for family and friends.  i have a dozen in my home now that continue to impress visitors.  

but she passed away after a long battle with cancer.  it's a story that we have all heard before.  i remained closeted in my unbelief becaues i loved her dearly.  a major influence in the lives of people in faith transition is "not making your mom cry".  i was happy to carefully retain my own lds membership simply so that my mother could live with her own calm assurance of her work raising a bunch of good kids who turned into good adults.  

i attended the temple with her and my father and siblings a few weeks before she passed away.  she and all of us knew that the end was coming and this what she wanted in the last chapter of her own life.  i don't mind the sacrifices i make to retain a temple recommend simply to have been there for her at the last.  we'll see if the church can possibly retain me now.